Glue to water ratio

What I’ve noticed lately while sinewing and finishing bows is that using 30% ratio glue to water lets me use less sinew for what I want to get from a bow.
I’ve become rather paticular about this now.Not so hap hazard type of mixing.
It makes sense having a like density layer on the other side of the core to the horn.
Light fissures can develop but still no problem.
Still using a 10% ratio for sizing a necessity though.

For sinew i use 5-10% for sizing wood surface. Then 25% for sinew dipping/combing.
When i apply sinew to the bow i coat the surface with 25% glue quite liberally.

Horn is another thing though!

Btw, just to make sure, i measure my glue percent like this: 25% glue mix is consisting of 25% glue and 75% of water. So i mix 25g of glue and 75g of water.

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So that actually is a 3 to 1 ratio,or closer to 33% really in my mind.I liberally slather the hide glue while sinewing myself also.
Does’nt horn need enough tooth and thin glue applied to get the penetration done.Like 100 or 220 grit at least sanding if glued in a flat application.

Horn needs grooves, at least 1mm if hide glue is used. But with epoxy i don’t think anything is needed. Just clean flat surfaces.

I’ve seen a mongolian bow that had very lightly scraped horn surface. They have less stress so those bows don’t need grooves.

My experience with grooving horn to wood done only a couple of times with a 48" and a 46" horn bow.All with hide glue sizing it multiple times properly and using the tencik.I did a terrible job of aligning the V splices.Too thin at the fades and not enough recurve at the tips too.A real bear cat to just open up with way too much twist.Very light weight bows also under 50 pounds I’d say.
I gave up trying.Decided to start over if I was to pursue it again.One did get tillered through the mail mind you by bownarra.That exchange was a nightmare with all the custom inspections and fees.He informed me of my short comings through the build.
On the postive side the core joinery held up very well as far as I got.The sinewing job was done well also.
In the past doing many bamboo to osage glue ups with smooth on I began to trust that glue quite a bit.So nowadays my glue ups on my lesser stressed recurved style with horn to wood are done using smooth on and a flat surface.Sanded fresh with 60 grit and drawn upon randomly with either a hacksaw blade or now a shinto rasp.
I guess I have enough experience to be dangerous…ha ha.

It seems like your the only one holding the fort down on this site also.Sorry the rapid drawn out rapid replys.I appreciate your patience.

Sounds like nice way to learn, sending a bow to the master! :smiley: But the customs…uhhh! I’m not jealous at all of the guys who sell bows. Postage and customs are a nightmare nowadays.

I remember bownarra. He had some nice bows.
Not too bad on your side either if you got one of your first bows to last! These bows need to be built by dozens to get the hang of it. Like woodbows too.

No problem, its nice to get some activity here. The more someone keeps me off facebook, the better. It seems that its not much about forum’s being bad/unusable but people are so drawn to facebook, instagram, youtube.
A lot of the guys who get good at bowmaking/hornbowmaking, they start selling their bows. And facebook/insta/youtube are the place where you find customers.
But also, when production goes commercial, they don’t want to share technical stuff either. Its a business secret now! And the less you share and talk, the better. I get it but i also don’t get it!!
For these reasons you don’t see many hornbow “masters” around here. I get my money elsewhere so i’m free. :slight_smile:

edit: Actually seems like @bownarra is a user here too! We have so many silent users here! 74 is total user count. Just need to start creating stuff here. I have quite a lot of pictures i could share from our flight archery trips etc hornbows.

Do you see that tiny 2 foot horn bow hanging there?Bownarra called it Mighty Mouse…ha ha and it just showed up at my place one day…ha ha…It pulled 40 pounds at 14".He made it from scraps laying around he said.
Bownarra can be very helpful,but can be overbearing at times also.I hav’nt spoke to him in a long time.He’s into this for the money also.
I believe Mighty Mouse is unbreakable also.One of the tips is out of line a bit though.It still shoots.A little bear trap to string up though…ha ha.
I’ve never been one to be on facebook.They would kick me off it in short order so I don’t even go there…ha ha.I don’t mince words and am who I am.Not someone on facebook and someone else in real life…ha ha.
I have sold bows too,but mostly give them to those that I know will treat them right and use them right.
I know my bow making sped up when I got a bandsaw.I don’t know what tool will speed up my horn bow making.I think I just got to be vigilant and stay at it.I know it’ll get more expensive though too.I can afford it though.
I’m retired into my 70’s over here and like to entertain myself and keep the woman happy…ha ha.

You are making an awful lot of misjudgements regarding me…remember we have never met and all you know me by is a few posts on the internet…don’t jump to conclusions as you have me wrong :wink:
I don’t sell bows anymore I made bespoke furniture.
I have always been very open about my methods and If I was in bow making ‘for the money’ I would’ve stopped a few months after I started…I’ve been making bows for over 20 years…
Is the problem me being ‘overbearing’ or are others too sensitive to take constructive critism?!? How can we learn if we are too big headed to have our mistakes pointed out to us and not take the huff haha :slight_smile:
One tool to make hornbows easier/quicker is a router sled and a 2mm triangles cutter. Cutting the grooves by hand is ok but the router takes 10 minutes and will be flawless. The sort of accuracy that is impossible by hand.
Another would be a good sized edge sander.
JNystrom is correct on how to work out glue percentages. You are using a different way to describe the same thing. 5% glue is 5% glue to 95% water or a 1:20 ratio. You say tomato we say tomato

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Well it’s good to hear from you I think…Taking criticizm is a hard thing to take for some.Especially when they hear what they don’t want to hear.In fact being open minded is my style.Speaking with people understanding what they want.
I guess we all do that in some form one way or another.
Don’t worry if one lives with a woman long enough they learn to take criticism.
I spoke up for you on the PA many a time to other members to understand it’s in their own best interests to pay attention.Many would object to my pointers also.I left there because of the beurocracy and lack of interest to improve ones’ skills.Not enough bows were being made to sell from their coffers.It was treated like a facebook when I left… boring.
Sites like these need to be run by bow makers not accountants.
I believe you are being too rigid yourself or probably lack of articulate communication.As far as making bows for other people many a time you quoted making bows for people.I guess I’m wrong there too.I believe the words for a living are the key here.
It’s like Jere mentioned when money steps in the hoarding of dialect begins.You’ve been an asset to the bow making world with all your hard work and stated that to members on the PA.
My living comes from farming and when mixing farm chemicals to water the way I described is right.Get that wrong and you’ve wasted your money or worse.Each to their own.As long as each ratio is used for it’s purpose is all that counts.

Nice to have some life here!

Would you have some examples of these, how to groove the (concave) horn with a router and triangle cutter, or usein edge sander?

I groove one horn by hand in about 25 minutes. I use a wooden jig to where I glue the horn with hot melt glue. Then I use a ring rasp for making the concave surface and after then the grooved scraper.

Looks pretty slick to me.