Here is the bunch of bows for 2025. 6 bows in total and varying lengths, but hopefully they will land close 110-130# @27".
Sinew is moose leg sinew and wood imported kiln dried sugar maple.
Yowzaa…what a set of projects.Looks like the hammer is down.Your staying more than busy.It’s an assembly line…ha ha.Great pictures!!
It pains me to think pulling 100 pounds…ha ha.
I love my moose and elk leg sinew too.
Horn is getting to be twice as expensive as it was 7 or 8 years ago too.
Old and new. This bow drawn here is 140# @26" (from belly).
This year i try to keep poundage lower from the get go, but at reasonable 110-125#. I think stressing these bows excessively from the start isn’t healthy for the core OR horn.
Here is the first candidate for opening. 108cm or 43" ntn, 344g and thinnest part of limb is 30x12,4mm. This should land at 100-120#. Its a bit hard to estimate since i feel sugar maple is much stiffer. Even though core wood shouldn’t effect poundage much, i still feel it does. Especially when belly horn gets thin.
Either way, if this bow finishes nicely, i will chrono it and shoot flight in the spring!
As you can see from the picture, it has bone nocks at place. Not fully formed nock groove yet. Bone is needed in order tips not to split.
By the way! Interesting that one of the grandpa of flight archery, very knowledgeable guy (Harry Drake) mentioned cow leg sinew being the best. And for example deer sinew being inferior. Coarse. Is deer sinew much different from elk? I feel Harry was somewhat right. At least that there actually is big difference in the sinew, not just by strenght, but the ability to be shredded into small pieces and infused with glue easily. Backsinew is commonly known of being coarse and inferior in this sense.
So looking at my little foot ruler here with mm measurements on the other side it is just shy 1/2" or .488" thick at your thinnest part and 1.18" wide.Thickest part is only 1.5 mm thicker maybe and how much wider?
That’s about what my 50# bows 58" long are at midlimb…ha ha.
That is a fairly wide range of poundage to shoot for compared to other bow making estimates,but is understandable.
Mass weight to draw poundage as Adam talks about in comparison I believe is where your bow will shine.You’ll have a hell of a christmas…ha ha.12.13 ounces putting out 120#'s or so.Look forward to the distance and chrono readings also.
My opinions are just that opinions from expereience.With more experience that might change.
Personally I have more faith in a more dense elastic whitewood core that’s glueing friendly myself within reason.I don’t use osage though.I feel it does have an affect on bows poundage to a small degree.
I hear of those using ash as a core.Personally that would’nt be my first choice.At least not the ash that grows here.
I tried rock elm once.It being lighter in density and very elastic with innerlocking grain.It was harder to stabilize.The poundage was there though.
Good idea or process of reinforcing those nocks.So when the poundage gets really high the sinew wrappings are’nt enough.A close up view of those nocks might be nice.
I had a discussion once with a fella about tillering a sinewed bow sooner than what Adam reccommends according to thickness.All because the bow is softer and easier to work with.
I took the stance that it would have more string follow if strained and used continually,and that he would have to retiller it later after finishing with the more curing time creating more draw poundage.I feel I’m correct as I’m adamantly opposed to string follow.IMO it’s a bad practice to get into all the way around.
Now this is enviornment contingous,but I’ve seen bows with 1/8" to 3/16" thick sinew not quit gaining draw weight till almost a year later.
I’ve read info about cow or ox leg being the best and contrary info saying wild ungulates was stronger also.If you’ve ever seen a deer stand right beside a 6’ fence and with ease jump and clear it from a stand still easily a person can come to their own opinion.
There is no difference between leg sinew in texture from either elk/moose or deer in strand circumference.The difference is in length.Never used ostrich either which seemed to be the latest craze sometimes…ha ha.
I always try to put my last coarse of sinew on using long strands on the complete working limb length.It may not be valid but it makes me feel good anyway…ha ha.
The dry stripped leg sinew strips fluffy like angel hair and infuses very well with glue IMO,being around less than 1/16" thick,but who am I to argue with Harry Drake.I imagine the leg sinew can be and is combed also.With that more waste though.
Did Harry Drake ever put out a book about his experiences?From what I gather he was’nt afraid to try anything.
From shooting an arrow over 1077 yards by hand to shooting an arrow over 2028 yards by foot or winning the national championship 29 years with Drake bows to even being the first person to shoot an arrow over 1 mile…unbelievable.He was the first person to set a shot over the 600 yard mark since the days of the Turks.From what I gather a lot of his record shots were with FG bows.One thing about his record bows is that they were mostly very short bows and static recurves.
Backstrap sinew is only used for sewing or wrappings mostly and sinew strings by me.All because of it’s harder dried strand nature [not as fluffy] than dry stripped leg sinew not being able to absorb as much glue.Although it can be combed through and over and over a bed of nail points to break up the glue to achieve a more fluffy texture which I don’t do.
Sorry I damn near wrote a book.
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About like that! Length of the bow makes a big difference with draw weight. These bows are shoooort. And they have a 4" static grip and 2" long static tips both ends.
We shoot such light arrows that we don’t need much bow length or energy storage. Comparing what we have learned from glassbows, we would gain a lot of more speed with somehow having better efficiency. So putting our effort to get really low mass tips. And low set.
Agreed. Sugar maple is A-class.
I will when i finish them.
I agree, the bows definitely will gain performance by curing. And there is re-tillering to be done if bow is used before its fully cured.
I find myself all the time running into situations that i cant cure my bows so long. This year might be the first time i can store some bows for longer period of time. I’ve broken so many bows, its hard to believe. Though, we have so dry winter in Finland that i think our cure times are 2x as fast as somewhere else, like i’ve mentioned.
No. What i’ve heard is Kay Koppedrayer is writing somekind of a short book about Harry’s life. He was definitely a big persona in the bow and flight field! I have access to his letters between him and Charles E. Grayson so i’ve read quite a lot about his testing and success with flight.
One amazing result is that he shot 541 yards with a 69# yew recurve before even seeing a flight bow made by someone else! The guy was a genius - and really tough willed. Everything he did he succeeded in.
Not surprisingly, he found a lot of problems with trying to make hornbows. He writes of problems finding enough elastic glue, good sinew and water buffalo horn. This was in the 90’s and i can really well understand, it was much harder to make a hornbow back then!
I agree with you about the sinew. I have same kind of experiences with the texture of fibers.
I remember once making bows with ostrich sinew. They were long and worked just nicely! Hah.
I believe the release of the energy the shorter bows do with less mass is where they shine the most.Especially with lighter arrows.
Even while making longer bows like I do I’m slowly making longer fades with the grip/longer stiff outer limbs with less length on working limbs to increase efficiency using composite materials.To get more out of the materials potential after being so used to making self bows.
I’m sure if patience is not done every step along the way the next bow will break again.
I’d like to see that yew recurve.
Thanks…Back in the early days of his journey.I’m sure that bow inspired him.Outstanding for such a short draw on an all wood 58" bow as it says without overdraw.Hard to believe.The weight of the arrows is not stated though.
I wonder what that bow looked like at rest and at full draw also.
My latest bow made a month ago is 57.75" TTT with short 3" contact recurves/9" handle and fades resting with 8.75" reflex.50% working limb[12"] and 50% stiff outer limbs[12"].It’s a complex composite.
Outstanding performer.The more I shoot it the smoother it gets.Fun to shoot.
I’m not sure if this is correct but i heard the arrow was 23" length and only 130gn in mass. I think it must have been even shorter arrow, since he used a shelf and feather rest. But maybe it could work, 130gn just sounds awful too little even for 23" arrow and 69# bow.
Recurves sure make bows joy to shoot!
Looks like he was at a low brace at that moment also.
After reading a little more about him your right he sure was a persistant fella and did his best work by himself…Many collect his bows now.
Ed: Yes indeed he was. I’m looking forward to the book Kay is writing about Harry.
Here are some pictures of my new set of bows. It might dissapoint some with the short cure time but i really need to have good bows for may and i want to be in time. I think i will brace some of the bows, cauge the weight and decide which can i use in the competition. Goal is to not stress them too much yet.
These bows seem a lot better than anything i have shot before. Last set i semi-ruined with heating the limbs before using tepeliks. Thats a big no no, but i was a serious bow destroyer back then and i was scared. Well, one of the bow set a world record so…?
In any case, now the spring back is quite a lot better with no heat induced reflex!
Whatever bow i decide to shoot in Istanbul, i will heat condition it to have it more dry.
107cm bow, could end up 100-110. When conditioned a 120#?
This one is heavier, 110cm and maybe 120# now without conditioning.
Those look awesome so far. Lots of trial and error to get to that point.
There was another error! This is the 110cm bow.
I tried a new method for sinew backing - applied a lot thicker layers. Mostly it was success, but on some places it made the layer too thick. Like 5-5,5mm thick sinew. So i had to scrape down in some places. Well this uncovered some air bubbles and then sinew on top of these air bubbles is working a lot… which then leads to sinew breaking under tension.
Here we have a little of sinew giving up. I need to apply a new layer here. I will rasp away 0,5mm and then sinew a fresh layer. It most often adds 0,7mm or so.
That’s a lot of sinew at 5 to 5.5mm.Maybe I misunderstood.Course you want the poundage though too and it might require that.
It’s hard to believe air could get in there the way you apply your sinew.Was the problem not pressing the sinew down well enough while applying the problem you think?Maybe not melding well between layers.
The sinew looks rather glue starved.
Flooding the area with very thinned out glue might help also.Then thicker glue for patching.Just spit balling here though.I’m sure you have your own thoughts on that.
One begins to trust the system of getting a bow of that poundage to brace doing more and more bows.
A real time consuming learning process.
Good luck.50 to 60 days till May.
Oh yes…The bows look awesome also.
You are right, I’m not really happy with the sinew job even to this day! I’ve had some problems with sourcing good sinew and tinkering with the process because of that. Now its getting better but this was a clear mistake. Its possible to trap air if surfaces are cold and/or too fast gel. I do press the air out but yeah. Sinew glue might be interesting in that sense because i would have some more time for the sinewing process.
Yes, 5mm+ meaning 0.200". Heavy bows, heavy sinew! Turkish did use heavy layers of sinew too. The bows become bulletproof with thick sinew.
I have managed to soak extra glue on some finished bows too. Just need to warm the surface and flood it with glue time after time. It works quite nicely and has fixed bows that would have otherwise had some few sinew strands sticking out. Quite versatile fix! And doesn’t break the schedule with long drying times since its only the surface you are playing with.
There are lot of details to learn with these bows for sure.
Just heard this upcoming year will be hotter than usual in Finland too.
When using hide and sinew glue I try to make my work enviornment very warm.85 F. to slow the gell time in a room with a wood stove as most times I apply more than one layer at a time.I hav’nt used a hair dryer to reliquify anything yet,but that’s an option also.
Applying hot thin glue after drying a bit sometimes multiple times I feel is a good practice.I don’t like any white areas which mean its starved for glue there.
Using backstrap sinew sinewing bows has in the past shown to be whiteish when drying telling me it has’nt absorbed the glue very well.
I think we both know what we want it to look like it’s just a matter of getting there.
I’m afraid it will be hot and dry here this summer also.
Exactly! I have sinewed some 60 bows by now. 50 of them being hornbows. You start to notice patterns at some point! Hah.
One layer at a time makes the cleanest bow. For sure.
Interesting discussion about sinew. I’ve had good results with deer and moose backstrap for bow backing. Granted these were 50-60lb bows. The horn bows I’m doing now are using leg tendons from Buffalo. I’ve played around with different glues too with sinew. I’ve also repaired glue starved sinew bows with very thin 5% hide/sinew glue. Obviously there are limits to the degree of repairs that can be done this way. I’ve also done this with thin sturgeon glue with good results. Heating up surface a little too is good I believe to get the thin glue down deep in there. Good info here on this site!